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-====== THE HIGHWIRE EPISODE 237: THE TURNING POINT ======
+====== The HighWire ======
-[[https://thehighwire.com/watch/|https://thehighwire.com/watch/]]
-The Highwire is part of the [[Informed Consent Action Network]] a 501-(c)3 promoting education and consent as part of individual medical autonomy.
-==== CONTENTS ====
-==== Introduction (7:46 to 9:21) pp. 1-2 ====
-==== Shutting down OSHA mandate in Michigan (9:21 to 10:23) p. 2 ====
-==== Requirements for imposing an ETS (10:23 to 13:11) pp. 2-3 ====
-==== Precedent for OSHA to mandate drugs to (13:32 to 16:26) pp. 3-4 ====
-==== Typical OSHA process for emergency ruling (16:26 to 18:54) pp. 4-5 ====
-==== Global survival/death rates for COVID-19 (18:54 to 20:15) p. 5 ====
-==== OSHA authority when there’s “imminent danger” (20:15 to 21:20) p. 5 ====
-==== Best response to Biden’s “vaccine mandate” (21:20 to 22:11) pp. 5-6 ====
-==== Employer liability (22:11 to 25:10) pp. 6-7 ====
-==== Things an employee can do (25:10 to 31:43) pp. 7-9 ====
-@7:46
-**Bigtree:** Now, I think there was a lot of questions on whether there was actually an executive order…I’ve been seeing a lot of tweets and Facebook posts like “he didn’t make an executive order”, or “this order is really towards OSHA”, and then OSHA is supposed to sort of, I guess, mandate upon us.  Well look, in order to understand how OSHA works, why don’t we bring in our in house OSHA experts?  I’m talking about Tammy Clark and Kristen Meghan joining me now.  Hey, you guys.  How are you guys doing today?
-**Meghan:** Good afternoon.  We’re doing as good as we can be in this world of tyranny.
-**Clark:** Hey Del, it’s great to see you again.
-**Bigtree:** It is great to see you too.  Now first of all, just so people have an understanding of your backgrounds.  Tammy, really quick, just sort of what’s your history of working with OSHA and your expertise?
-**Clark:** Yes, well for the last twenty years, I’ve been an occupational environmental health, safety, and compliance professional.  I’m OSHA trained, OSHA credentialed, and basically I work with lots of different industries to make sure that all employees in the workplace are safe and healthy, and that the employers are following OSHA’s compliance and regulatory standards.
-**Bigtree:** Great.  And Kristen, what’s your background?
-**Meghan:** Yes, so I have 19 years experience working in the field of occupational environmental toxicology as a senior industrial hygienist.  Nine years of that was active duty in the Air Force doing the same exact thing, but my most relevant aspect of that is I’m an expert in recommending mitigation of health hazards and I have 12 years experience in pandemic planning preparedness and response embedded within health care systems.
-**Bigtree:** All right, so you guys are fairly qualified on this issue.  Good.  Because I think a lot of us have a lot of questions.
-@9:21
-Now the reason Tammy—you and I were both in Mississippi at that incredible event there.  And we were sitting backstage and you were talking about how OSHA—sort of this state group of OSHA in Michigan—decided that they were going to push this sort of mandate on the state, and you guys pushed back and had some success shutting that down.  Can you very quickly help me understand what happened there?
-**Clark:** Yes, so basically what happened was Governor Whitmer was going to extend the temporary emergency rule that they had in place, and she decided that she was going to make a permanent  COVID-19 standard, a permanent rule.  And we knew—Kristen and I know, as OSHA credentialed experts—that that is not following the rule-making process.  That is illegal.  Federal OSHA does not have a  standard error(?) mandate, so the individual states are not allowed to enact their own.  So we mobilized everybody.  We gave them the emails and the phone numbers to contact Michigan, OSHA, and we knew we could shut it down by flooding their offices if we armed the people with the truth in the information, and they did.  Within a day, that was shut down.
-@10:23
-**Bigtree:** Fantastic.  So since we’re into arming, you know, our population, all of the viewers out there of the Highwire and beyond with information, Kristen, when we see OSHA, now this is federal OSHA, not just a state OSHA, is now sort of going to bring down this mandate on America, and of course, this is about…employers that have over 100 employees are going to have to enforce a vaccine mandate; being forced by OSHA to do that.  You know, having worked for OSHA and knowing, sort of, their charter and their mandate, where do you see…are there problems with their ability to do that?
-**Meghan:** Well, I don’t work for OSHA.  I work with OSHA.  We’re like liaisons for the public sector and the government.  But first of all, this is called an emergency temporary standard they’re trying to push through.  That is never pushed through the executive branch.  It is done through the legislator, and also, in order to impose an ETS--an Emergency Temporary Standard—you have to meet certain criteria which this is a description of.  Grave danger.  Are we in grave danger?  Because it looks to me that we are firing qualified healthcare professionals during a pandemic left and right.  Also it must be deemed that this is a needed standard with needed controls—forced vaccination—as a necessity.  Key term, “necessity”, to work in a safe environment.  This is not a necessity, and the reason I say that, Del, is we follow something in our field called the “hierarchy of control”, and as the hierarchy of control, I think that they are trying to list the vaccine as a form of elimination.  Except we’re not eliminating a virus through a not 100% efficacious vaccine that is known to wane, and we’re ignoring natural immunity, so legally, this could be fought in court because it cannot be classified as a form of control when we have other methods that are proven in court to reduce the hazard; for example, through engineering controls.  Increasing air exchanges through ventilation through dilution in destruction technology.  Installing units on HVAC systems that can kill 95-96% of bacteria, viruses, and molds.  We have other withstanding and working and verified confidence in those controls.  And a last thing too, Del.  If you were going to impose a control through an emergency standard, we—people like Tammy and myself—have to be able to go verify the confidence in OSHA control.  How are we to verify the confidence in a vaccine in a body when we all have different human and genetic factors?  For example, a study just came out saying that if you have low iron—I am iron anemic—if I were to get this, I would need to get my iron levels up to receive the claimed efficacy for this.  So we are ignoring, again, individual human and genetic factors.  Vaccines cannot be a form of control.  This is not legal.
-@ 13:11
-**Bigtree:** Tammy, when I think of OSHA, you know, we think of things like masks, we think about air quality, we think about HVAC systems.  There’s no mold.  They’re breathing…like the building.  I always think of OSHA really more as the building surrounding me that I’m working, or the environment that I’m working in.  Yet, and maybe a mask, but have we ever…
-@13:32
-has there ever been a moment in OSHA’s history that they have said you have to take a drug, or you have to be injected with a pharmaceutical product?  Is there a history of that?
-**Clark:** No.  In fact, OSHA wrote a letter—a clarification letter—to a state representative who questioned during the flu vaccine whether or not it was legal to require the flu vaccine, etc.  And OSHA clearly stated that they are not able to enforce or require vaccines, any medications, anything like that, on people and the public.  However, they said the employer could.  So they made it very clear in their own letters of interpretation that they cannot.  They do not have the ability to force or mandate any sort of vaccines or medicines, medical devices, [or] any control measures on the public, on individuals.
-**Meghan:** If I can just add real quick, Del, another example of that would be under the OSHA blood-born pathogen standard.  They never mandated a Hep B shot.  It was highly encouraged with other risk mitigating factors.
-**Bigtree:** So highly encouraged is the best they can do.  They’ve never mandated it.  And that would make sense to me, because OSHA is supposed to be protecting people.  I’m correct even in a place where masks are necessary.  When we spoke originally last year, you were saying there are some people that can’t wear a mask—that OSHA would never force a person to wear a mask if they have any sort of physical issue that would be against that.  Certainly a vaccine or any drug is…there’s going to be people, as you pointed out, that either the vaccine won’t work for or might even endanger people with immune issues, or those that have already had the natural infection that already have robust immunity showing that that is going to last for a very long time.
-@15:15
-So how can OSHA get involved with a sort of one size fits all, you know, and force people in when they’ve never even done that when it came to masks and dangerous environments?
-**Clark:** Well, they tried.  They did try to do this with the masks, because Biden told them to go create a standard.  But the President of the United States does not have the ability to just go order OSHA to do something like create a new standard.  It doesn’t work that way.  The OSHA act of congress sets very clear parameters and specifications for the rule-making process in what they have to go through.  So if they could have done that with masks, they would have.  It is no different with this vaccine.  But this is even worse, because there are people that it will literally kill.  If you give certain people, certain individuals, vaccinations, that have already had strokes, or they’ve already had adverse reactions to previous vaccines, you could literally kill them.  So to go force somebody to do that as a condition of employment—if they don’t do it, they’re going to be a captive of society, they’re going to have no way to make money, no way to go shopping, you know, if you don’t show your card; it is egregious.  It is criminal what is happening.  So legally, OSHA cannot do that.
-@ 16:26
-**Bigtree:** Kristen, now you talked about this…again, we’re getting so tired, I think, of this sort of “emergency use”, or “emergency authorization”, or “in a time of emergency”, where all of a sudden everyone is rushing, you know, the rule making process, the law making process, but does OSHA…I mean you sort of touched on this.  I want a little more depth.  Normally, if we were going to have an emergency act done by OSHA, what is the process?  Does that come from the President, or does it go through the Congress?  And then how much time is taken even in terms of an emergency to sort of do the proper testing and figure out if this is the way forward and if this is something OSHA is going to do?  Is it usually like one month?  I think we had 30 days since Biden made this statement.  Is that how much time it usually takes for OSHA to come up with, sort of, this emergency ruling?
-**Meghan:** Well, since the OSHA Act of 1970 was passed, I believe there’s been ten attempts for ETS and it’s only got a 50% rate of being enforced…with the most recent one being the past June, and that was for healthcare workers.  That took five months.  But decades ago, when asbestos was a known carcinogen based on data, what happens is it’s a community effort.  So, people in our field, that are working in injury and death in the field, we work with these working groups, focus shared with senators, we have senate hearings, we try to raise the awareness, and then OSHA will take that data and kind of reach out to different membership groups and say “are you guys seeing this?”  That’s when you see multiple test standards and start seeing things like that.  So this takes months, and not only that; again, it has to show, like the first time they try to push through the asbestos ETS because they knew how reparable(?) it was, and they had this estimation of how many people would die in a certain amount of time.  Well they couldn’t prove it, so it didn’t go through.  But the biggest issue here I would like to address is that in this proposed ETS, President Biden wants us to be cited up to close to $14,000 as a serious violation.  Well, under the field manual through OSHA, a serious violation is a violation where you’re being completely negligible, and you’re saying that there’s likelihood for someone to die.  So we’re not talking about like a pouring gas leak.  I mean, the last I heard is we’re on 97-99% recovery rates for most people--nothing’s one size fits all--but to me, that doesn’t sound like you are highly likely to die if exposed to COVID-19.
-@18:54
-**Bigtree:** All right.  Hold it right here.  We got right here.  Let’s just talk right through it, because you brought it up.  I was going to do this at the end of the show.  This is crunching all of the data from around the world done by John Ioannidis out of Stanford University.  Your survival rate from COVID-19 should you catch it 0-19 is a 99.9973% survival rate.  20-29, a 99.986% survival rate.  30-39, a 99.96…40-49—you get it—a 99.918; 99.73.  But you know, for some people I thought maybe they don’t understand this, so I switched it around.  What is the death rate of this virus?  Because this is what you’re talking about.  The emergency is you could die.  What is your risk of dying?  Look at that.  0-19, your risk of dying is 0.0027%.  That’s a thousandths there of 1%.  Not a quarter of 1%; not a tenth of 1%; not a 100 th of 1%, but in the thousandths of percentage points.  So you look at that risk all the way up until you get to 70+ do you start seeing the 2.4% and 5.5%, and most of those people, I’m hoping, are sitting on a beach somewhere retired.  So for the rest of it, it is a less than 0% chance of risk, and so when you…what you’re saying right now makes so much sense.  Listen.  If we have a chlorine gas leak, obviously, we’ve got to get in there and handle that because people will die in contact.  This is not a death on contact issue.
-@20:15
-**Clark:** Right, but they’re actually trying to say that it is.  In fact, our health department here in Michigan, and I know around the country, they’re saying the same things because they’ve all been given this same talking point by the state health board, by the state health directors, which is coming directly from the CDC, as Kristen and I have discovered through testimony in some of these court cases.  What they’re claiming is a phrase that we use a lot in the world of occupational environmental health and safety, and that’s “imminent danger.”  They’re actually claiming that they have to keep our children masked up until they can receive this experimental vaccine; until it’s approved.  They’re claiming that you all have to take a vaccine because of the imminent danger that they’ve been made aware of; that you might die if you don’t.
-**Meghan:** And just to put it into context, we have the authority when we’re consultants for businesses and when I worked for the federal government, I have the ability if there’s imminent danger, to shut down a business for a process until it’s remedied.  I am not going to shut down a business even with one or five positive cases, because again, we know—you just showed us the survivability rates.
-**Bigtree:** Right.  Incredible.
-@21:20
-So, in sort of closing right now, obviously I think this is going to be going to courtrooms around the country.  ICAN, our nonprofit, is going to be fighting this.  What do you think is going to be the biggest argument against what Biden’s attempting to do, using OSHA in this way?
-**Meghan:** I guess my first recommendation would be do not quit your job, because there is nothing in writing yet making this a mandate, because there is no EO tied to this that I know of, and this is not passed, and even if it is passed, business owners, if this is pushed through illegally, you have the right to request a judicial review to fight against this, because if you have employees who have natural immunity, or exemptions, go through your exemptions.  Don’t quit.  Let them fire you.  Maintain positive attitude, and know that nothing is forcing you yet.
-@22:11
-**Bigtree:** Now, employers, Tammy, are finding as well—really quickly, Tammy.  Employers are finding, and this is just what Kristen said, are finding themselves in a difficult position, is OSHA really putting them in a position where technically, you know, they are going to get people injured, should they get vaccinated will be…you know, I think you’re opening up the employer to lawsuits, and certainly workman’s comp, and nobody wants to have a business that is high workman’s comp payouts.  Is that fair for OSHA to put the employer into a position where they may have to pay out, even be subject to lawsuits because on the job, they forced their employees to take a product that ends up perhaps paralyzing them, giving them a heart condition, or even killing them?
-**Clark:** Yeah, this is what…and I don’t think employers really understand, and a lot of this comes from corporate attorneys, because if attorneys are very risk averse for the most part, and they are directing people to do things that their clients do not need to do and in fact should not do just because they’re hearing rumbling of this new mandate coming, or whatever.  So then the attorney starts scrambling and preparing their client, business owners, to start doing this to “keep them out of trouble”.  The problem is they’re putting them in a position that they’re going to have more trouble, because there is a major amount of documentation now that we know behind the Medicare and Medicaid documentation that’s come out how many people have actually died taking this within just a few days of receiving the vaccine, the injuries, the permanent injuries that are happening as a result.  If an employer mandates on any of their employees as a condition of employment, whether it’s PPE(?), medical devices, vaccines--anything like that—they are 100% liable to those employees.  And just because OSHA is not looking at their record keeping anymore, because OSHA has not said that there’s a condition of inspection anymore.  It’s not an inspection criteria.  They’re not going to look at their OSHA 300 logs and see if they’re recording these things.  So just because they’re not recording the adverse effects, the injuries, or the deaths, does not mean the liability has been removed, and this is where employers are going to find themselves in a lot of trouble.
-**Bigtree:** Wow.
-@24:18
-**Meghan:** Also, really quick, another initiative employees can take is don’t always think that OSHA standards are to force you to do things.  You can invoke OSHA standards to fight for rights, and I would exercise what is called the General Duty Clause.  Where there’s a hazard, there’s a standard…excuse me, where there’s a standard, there’s a hazard, but where there’s a hazard, there’s not always a standard.  And this is not a conspiracy theory, so look up that VAERs database and look at the data coming out from our own government that…the risks and the benefits do not equal to me…I feel like this is more dangerous to do, especially in a one size fits all approach.  Invoke the general duty clause, which says you have a right to a safe and helpful(?) work environment free from health hazards like this.  And all you need to do is produce the own government’s documents to your employer and say “I am not willing to accept this risk. ((At the 24:48 marker in the video, there’s a thorough summary of VAERs reports through 10/1/21, and the image is very revealing.  Source is found here: [[https://openvaers.com/covid-data/covid-reports|Browse the Reports - OpenVAERS]] ; you go up to where it says “COVID Vaccine Data” at the top and click “’Red Box’ Summaries” to see the latest breakdown (updated weekly).
-)) Are you?
-@25:10
-**Bigtree:** Right, and you know, one of the things I think about, and we’re trying to tell everybody, “look, you’ve got to make your own choice”, but I would never take a product I don’t believe in simply to keep my job.  But if it comes down to that line, and my employer’s saying “I’m sorry, you have no choice”, first of all I would say stand together, but in standing together, certainly, that employee…is that employee allowed to sort of like set a baseline and say I want you as my employer to…you know, I want to get a physical.  I want to prove where I was at before I took this vaccine.  Is that something that you can do?  Does OSHA sort of allow me that opportunity?
-**Meghan:** Yes.  It’s something, again, under the General Duty Clause.  If you have a condition of employment when you were hired on with the understanding at the time you got hired that this wasn’t required and now it is, it’s invoking a new risk to you.  Because you can request a baseline physical, I would check EKG, blood pressure, look at the most common injury on this trend associated with this in the VAERs database.  Request that baseline, because if you have an adverse reaction, or death, loss of consciousness, anything above first aid, you can fight for your rights, you can individually sue your employer, and file for worker’s compensation.
-**Bigtree:** You know what I like about that?  Just, you know, it’s just that when we think of unions, we think of these large groups, because…these are employment centers with over 100 employees.  If we get together and say look, if you want to do this, go to your union and say I want to demand that every single employee that’s being forced to do this that our boss is going to have to pay to have a physical for every one of us, set the baseline to agree that’s where our health was at, and should anything change from there, we’re going to hold the employer responsible.  I think by taking those actions, you are really going to be deterring any employer to move forward, so I think that’s a really interesting point that nobody has brought up.
-@27:00
-So lastly, Tammy, you know, for people that are out there…they’re standing on the line, you know, they’re really worried.  So many people, like in Texas.  We’re going to talk about Governor Abbott…has blocked, sort of, the vaccine mandate, but also all of these people in Texas that got the vaccine already that wouldn’t have gotten it otherwise.  They find themselves like they move too quickly.  What’s your advice to people in the circumstances we now find ourselves at…you hear your employer may do it.  You hear that the government’s forcing you to do it.  What is it you recommend people to do?
-**Clark:** Well, first of all, if you work for a Union company, please go talk to your union steward.  Right now, the governors and the government is utilizing these unions and they’re weaponizing them.  No different than our governors are utilizing state agencies and federal agencies and trying to weaponize them to coerce you to do something.  So go talk to your union representative.  Talk to your HR Department.  We need to get these documents that we’ve been talking about and we’ve been showing with the link to the studies and the information, and we need to go to your employer and you simply need to say, “look, I’m just not comfortable doing this.  There’s too high of a risk rate.  My chance of dying is, you know, .001% or 2%.  My chance of adverse effect from this vaccine are much higher than that, and so you’re forcing me to do something that creates a greater hazard.”  Now in the world of occupational health and safety, that’s a no-no.  Everything we do is about eliminating the hazard, but anything that we do that creates a greater hazard is something that we are not allowed legally to do.  So this is…what’s happening is our OSHA agencies and our unions are being weaponized against people.  We the people need to stand up and recognize where that is coming from, and we need to stand up and we need to be very vocal.  You don’t just quit your job.  You make them fire you, because now you have a very strong case.  And you need to get collectively together.  Just like employees—the pilots of Southwest Airlines—and what happens is courage is contagious.  One person stands up; one group; one company, and look at what happens.  Now American Airlines.  Now Amtrak.  And we’re going to see more and more and more.  And that’s all it takes is for people to be courageous.  Get your employees together; your colleagues together, and go talk to your HR Department.  You know, put together a strike, a walkout, but whatever you do, just don’t go along.  If you don’t feel to go along with this in your gut, and you don’t feel comfortable with it, don’t allow yourself to be coerced.  There is a huge, huge alternative job market that’s developing right now.  One that I just found out about yesterday is called RedBalloon, and it’s an alternative place for employers who do not want to discriminate.  They don’t want to coerce their employees to do anything that they feel are not healthy and it violates their personal choice and their bodily autonomy and their own health freedom.  They have a whole platform now where you can go and you can post your job openings from across the country.  And I looked at it yesterday, and there’s everything from construction job openings to healthcare job openings.
-**Bigtree:** It’s a whole new economy, right?  Yeah, we’re creating a whole new economy.
-**Clark:** That’s right.
-**Bigtree:** Fantastic.
-**Meghan:** Also, reach out to your federal congressmen and senators, because again, just like we see here in the State of Michigan, with our dictator, she unilaterally violates our state constitution—abuses her powers.  Again, OSHA does not get their orders…pecking orders from a president.  There is a reason that exists, and there’s also a reason that the professionals in our career field run the department—run OSHA—because we’re out in the field, and we are not going to get our advice from non-credentialed people.
-**Clark:** Can I say one more thing about that?
-**Bigtree:** Yeah.
-**Clark:** I just want everybody to understand just because you’re hearing this does not make it true.  OSHA does not have the enforcement capability, guys.  You’re hearing all of this chatter—oh, OSHA’s saying this and doing this.  It doesn’t mean they’re actually doing it.  They don’t have the authority to do this.  They’re violating congressional laws and regulatory rule-making processes.  They do not have the manpower to go door to door and inspect all of these businesses.  They just can’t enforce it.  But what is happening is that they’re hoping that by just saying it and putting this out there in print that they’re doing it, that you will self regulate and you will comply just because you are hearing it.  So we have to recognize that what is going on isn’t honest.  They’re just saying things.  Just like here in Michigan, Governor Whitmer’s just saying things.  They are not true.  They are lies, but a lot of people just go along because they think it’s the truth.  So we have to be discerning today, and we have to educate ourselves on the legal process.  We have to be communicating frequently, regularly, with your state representative; with your senator.  Get to know these people.  Put pressure on them.  Because that’s how we the people, who still have the power, are going to stop this and turn this around.
-**Bigtree:** Absolutely.  Fantastic.
-@31:43
-Tammy, Meghan, thank you so much for your brilliant work.  Keep up the good work.  We’re gonna post all of the information—everyone on your newsletter, you’re going to get all of the information that they’ve shared with us so that you can be knowledgeable when you talk about OSHA and what it can and cannot do.  I know you guys are putting it on the line.  You’ve come under a lot of duress, but you’re also fighting in court cases.  You’re fighting for people all over this country.  You are true American heroes.  It’s an honor to have you join us today.  Thank you so much.
-**Meghan:** Thank you.
-**Clark:** Thank you.
-**Bigtree:** All right.  Take care.
-(32:14)